Player Owned Vendors

As you already pointed out, our vendor calculator is outdated and we have to adjust it based on the information you have provided on that page. However, I think we first need to figure out the way it adjusts the prices for some of these "exceptional" items. I first thought it adjusts the price based on the price of the item on an npc vendor, as in, it takes into account the base price of the item on an npc vendor if it is priced less. Unfortunately this doesn't hold for most of the items like artifacts and especially for blackrock stew. Imbuing weight and insurance cost are also dont seem to be related. I'm still trying to figure out how it adjusts the prices of these items that are exceptions. Nimuaq 10:53, 6 June 2011 (PDT)

I love this wiki but am not sure if I should talk to you in this area or your own user talk. Anyways as you said "I'm still trying to figure out how it adjusts the prices of these items that are exceptions." well you and me both lol. I have only found the exceptions here and there. I have found blackrock stew which is 6 gold fee for 0-1499 price and samuels secret sauce which is a 3 gold fee for 0-999 price and I did one small classic boat which I set the vendor fees up by 48 gold which means it will be 48 gold for 0-8499 price, (willing to do some more research when I get a chance). It seems to me these have a "suggested retail price". It looks like the devs expected blackrock stew to be set at 1000 gold, they expected the secret sauce to be sold for 500 gold and they expected the boat to be sold for 8000 gold (not sure if the devs are even aware of the 499 "feature" that allows you to add 499 gold to any item before the vendor fee increases)

I have tried figuring the price on the code for npcs to buy back an item. Which is to pay 75% of the value they sell the item for. Now of interesting note...a small ship deed from the tram vesper docks (Atl) right now is 10177. 75% of 10177 = 7633 (rounded up). If I price out an item for 7633 it will charge 45 gold per day which is close. But close only helps in greater explosion potions (I was going to say handgrenades but thought I'd keep it UO). I'll keep looking and noting exceptions. Anyways, at your service even if you might have to show me around a bit. --TullyMars 13:50, 6 June 2011 (PDT)

Tested interior decorating tool...48 gold vendor fee increase at zero price. Beginning to think if you take the base price (the tram price not the fel faction price) of an item that an npc sells and multiply it by 80% and then figure out the vendor fee you will get the item. That might work for most anything but is most evident on items that have high npc cost-value (over 624 gold)--TullyMars 14:09, 6 June 2011 (PDT)

Update the 80% thing works for Statuette Engraving Tool as well. NPC selling for 1253. 80% of 1253 = 1002 (rounded down). Fee charged for Statuette Engraving Tool at zero price on player vendor = 6 gold. Fee for any item on player vendor priced 1002 gold = 6 gold. --TullyMars 14:16, 6 June 2011 (PDT)

Interesting - thought I'd check commodities to see if it holds true. I put on 1000 iron ingots at zero price and got a 12 vendor fee. I put on 500 ingots at zero price and got a 6 vendor fee. I put on 250 ingots at zero price and got a 3 vendor fee. I put on 247 ingots at zero price and got no vendor fee increase. So seeing as iron ingots have a base price of 8 each that blew my original proposal out of the water. However...I did discover!!! Put an item on the vendor and hit esc and it will tell you of course items can't be set for no sale and it supplies a price!! and this price is supplies is the number used to figure out the vendor fee!!! This is the suggested retail price!!
247 Iron Ingots game/nfs price is 499 gold (2x number of ingots +5)
250 iron ingots game price is 505 gold
500 iron ingots game price is 1005 gold
1000 iron ingots game price is 2005 gold
Interior Decorator Game price is 8002 gold.
Statuette Engraving Price is 1006 gold.
Blackrock Stew price is 1002 gold.
So basically somewhere in that discombulated code is a table of value for these items in case someone tries to put them on for Not For Sale. I'm done researching for the day lol. --TullyMars 14:45, 6 June 2011 (PDT)

Thanks! I will search it from where you left, we hopefully find something about it that makes some sense. The talk pages are to discuss issues on a page. This discussion is in fact should be on the Vendor article's discussion page but those pages are rarely checked so we can start the discussion anywhere then move the discussion to the specific article's talk page. There are no strict rules about it and JC the Builder often moves discussions to the talk pages of the relevant pages. I started here because the system warns you that you have a message. Thanks again for the info. Nimuaq 15:01, 6 June 2011 (PDT)
You're totally right about your 80% rule for most of the items that are sold by Npcs: works exactly 80% for ship deeds (not dry-docked models but the actual deeds), hellhound treats and other items that have somewhat fixed vendor price. Nimuaq 16:37, 6 June 2011 (PDT)
For the calculation of ingot fees: first ingot is 7gp. Each additional ingot adds 2gp. So, 247 ingots is = First ingots's price + 2 gp per the other 246 ingots = 7 + (2*246) = 7 + 492 = 499. Valorite ingots are priced the same as regular ones. The same calculation goes for sand. For boards and leather, the calculation is different. For Leathers: First two leathers are 5gp. Each additional leather is 1gp. So, 20 leather is: 5gp (for the first two) + 18 = 23gp. For boards, again, the first two boards are 3gp and each additional board adds 1 gp. So, for 20 boards: 3gp (first two boards) + 18 (remaining ones (20-2=18)) = 21gp. Nimuaq 18:18, 6 June 2011 (PDT)
I get the following for the NFS-Vendor Pricing

Ingots = (Ingots * 2)+5 works for any amount and any type of ingots
Boards = (Boards * 1)+1 for amounts over 1 and any type of wood
Reagents = {(Base Price of Reagent - 2) * (qty of reagents)} + 1
But all this usually won't effect any calculations for vendor fees unless people are giving large amounts away without putting them in commodity deeds. For the calculator and article purpose, perhaps we should explain this "NFS-Vendor Pricing" explain that most everything has a different pricing scheme to figure this and explain the quick way of finding this price (using the esc nfs method). We would also explain that if the player prices an item under this amount, the system will use the higher of the two prices to figure out the vendor fees. The calculator for how much a single item will add to the daily vendor fees is...

Truncate(Price/500) * 3

Now I am not sure how to do it for an entire vendor without having A HUGE CHART somewhat like this
Range - How Many items on the vendor are in this range

0-499 -
500-999 -
1000-1499 -
etc etc ad infinitum. Which is infeasible because with items being priced out at 12 mill and 15 mill and such the chart would quickly grow too large. --TullyMars 19:02, 6 June 2011 (PDT)

Re-editing the page

I think you're right, we cant just prepare a huge chart, and most of the item prices dont make sense like Heart of the Lion is priced 70gp by a vendor while even a regular Platemail Tunic is more than this. There might be many exceptions like this. I checked if these prices differ from shard to shard, but no, these prices are the same on TC1 too. I also think you're right about some kind of pre-defined price for each item too.

Your formula currently stays much better than the java calculator. We could add:

Daily\;Vendor\;Fee=60 + \sum_{i=1}^n \bigg( Truncate \Big( \frac{price_i}{500})*3 \Big) \bigg)

But this will probably confuse anyone who skipped their math classes. Instead, we can do something like:

Daily\;Vendor\;Fee=60 + Sum\;of\;all\;{\color{Sepia}Item\;Fees}

{\color{Sepia}Item\;Fee}=Round\;down \Big( \frac{Item\;Price}{500}\Big) *3

and maybe explaining on the article with examples too for the exceptions you've found. What do you think? Nimuaq 03:51, 7 June 2011 (PDT)

I like it. I think the simplified formula works better for most. The math on the first one makes perfect sense to me, but some players will go googly-eyed over the formula. Unless we can convince a dev to release the table of values to us (which I bet is highly unlikely especially since it seems to defy some logic and most likely is legacy through many many dev teams), a quick explanation of exceptions and the "UO MSRP" of items, seems the best way to go. --TullyMars 06:09, 7 June 2011 (PDT)
I removed the calculator and added some of the info you've provided so that you can modify it further if there is anything unclear. Thanks again! Nimuaq 06:57, 7 June 2011 (PDT)