Training Greater Dragons
Besides the Greater Dragon any pet that spawns with less than GM in a skill can only be trained up to GM, skills that start over GM will not go any higher; Greater Dragons maximum skill is based on their skill when tamed (the higher the better) you can work out maximum skills using the UOCraft Pet Power Calculator
Actually the rules concerning the Greater Dragon are vague at best. Wouldn't mind seeing them clarified. Saying the dragon is different but not saying how only adds to my confusion, and that calculator certainly doesn't say anything about the matter! I suspect the only reason people think there's some difference is because the GD has so many skills in excess of GM (and WAY in excess at that).
My dragon had 144 Wrestling prior to taming (which that pet calculator reckons is outside the limits, by the way). After some deaths and training I determined the new cap to be 129.6 (which is exactly 90%), so I used that as my example here.
But this suggests that would only be possible with Greater Dragons. So my question is this: If you tame a Rune Beetle which had 120 Poisoning, is it's new maximum 108? If so, then all pets are the same... My bug currently has just over 120 poisoning, but given that it was probably pretty close to the 140 max when I first tamed it, this doesn't prove anything "definitive".
Can't test this out at present as I currently don't have access to a game client, and probably won't for some time.
On the other hand, the Magery score of my dragon was a lot lower - above GM prior to taming, below GM after. GM became the new cap. I know this to be standard for all pets.
- Bomb Bloke 01:39, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
Onto your second ... talk? :)
- you enter the information into the pet calculator (not my work, but at least makes it easier to work out) after you have tamed it (there is a radio button for freshly tamed pet), your using the post tamed skill information; from my own experience it seems (at least with hit points) when you tame a Greater drag it looses about half of its hit points ie if you want a 800 HP Gdrag then you need to tame one that have 1600 hps
- i agree that the information available is poor at best, the information i have is from different forums and experience in trying, we definatly know that the pre tame skill values have an impact on the post tamed max trained number i know this because as much as i try i cant get my Gdrag above 110 Magery where as others have gone up higher so as a minimum i think we can agree that you need to pick your Gdrag with decent skills to start with otherwise it is going to have poorly fully trained skills; very difficult to do when you consider resists as well, I've always found the Pet calculator good from this aspect, lore it pre tame, is it roughly good? tame it, stick the new values in the calculator and see where it is lacking :)
- does any of the above make sense? :) hopefully it explains my workings :)
- about max skills generally, we know if the pet has less than GM (excluding Gdrag) then it wont go above 100 when fully trained, i thought we also knew that if a pet skills (after taming) were above GM (ie Bug poisoning) then it will not go any higher, that's all i was tyring to say :) maybe i need to re word it :)
- sorry you cant get online, always a bummer when their isnt a client around :(
- great website BTW, hopefully i am providing something of use for people by my additions? :)
Ah, yes, I mis-read the check box and thought it was for if the pet had already been tamed or not. Now that I think about it, I can't think of a point to asking why it's been "trained"... But yes, the numbers do more or less check out that way.
Yes, some pet attributes halve when tamed, some just drop by 10%.
The other thing about my dragon was that it had over GM magery prior to taming, but less then GM after. I now cannot train that skill (or any of the other skills it had that dropped to under GM on taming) above that mark. So I'm thinking that particular rumor is incorrect; a shame, 'cause now I'll need to go get a new dragon...
Though even a "weak" greater dragon is devastating compared to any other pet.
And yes, your additions are most welcome. :) Incedently, if you stick four tildes in a post (~~~~), that'll be replaced with your username/time/date stamp when you submit. A quick and handy method to sign comments on talk pages.
Also note that if you check out the history of a page, you can bring up old versions, then hit edit from there to see the code they used. This gives you access to what you (or others) might've posted on a page before someone else messed with it... Handy if you ever want to recover/revert something, and a safety net so you don't need to worry too much about "breaking" something important.
The preview button is, of course, the preferred method of being sure. ;)
- Bomb Bloke 07:51, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
Oh, also keep your eye on the Recent Changes page. Good way to keep track on what's happening around the place. You can use the "diff" links to see exactly what changes were made to a page without manually reading through and attempting to spot them yourself.
- Bomb Bloke 08:36, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
I agree weak Gdrags are still powerfull, devastating when fully trained! :)
Excellent tips! thanks :)
ShadowSpinner 08:58, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
I pinpoint these two skills specifically because they follow special rules as opposed to all the other skills a pet has (except maybe Healing, but that's not exactly trained by hitting things). Basically if your pet doesn't have skills comparable to your target, you don't get gains. The closer you can match the skills, the better off you are.
My point is if you're too low to gain off an AOL, then you should also be too low to gain off a Sphynx... 'Cause they're exactly the same.
I've generally used AOLs to train my pets when they hit about 80, and they give great gains all the way to GM (and a little higher, in some cases).
However, I'm asking, 'cause I've only "fully" trained about a dozen pets so far, and I know some people do pet training as a full on passtime...
I've also removed your spellbinder guide as the page already had one, and I recommend people follow that before doing any other pet training anyway... By all means make changes to that if you think they're needed.
Be aware that training by blocking your pet from damage is technically illegal and a banable offense if someone pages on you (regardless of whether you're AFK or not). Not a rule I agree with, but that's the way it is.
- Bomb Bloke 01:39, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
Hi Bomb Bloke, good to speak to you, I'm still getting used to this wiki thing, took me a while to figure out how to respond! ;)
To answer your comments:
- I know the thing about making sure the difference in skill between your pet and the Monster isn't too high, i have based the guide on my own experience and the experience of tamer friends, but were not infallible! :) and value your thoughts :)
- The section was actually going to be written with a short guide on hunting pets, for younger players to understand which pets are entry level and what they should be aiming for, it was going to start with Kitsunes as an entry level hunting pet thus starting training on AOLs
- i didn't feel any lower pet (especially with Advanced Char tokens) was really relevent, maybe i should clarify this :)
- i have started but have not finished this new section yet :)
- From experience and talking to other players I started on AOls because of their ease of killing without danger then i normally move onto the Sphynx, i have gmed skills of Cus and Gdrags off the Sphynx, gaining on the Gdrag was slow after GM until i moved to Miasma when it picked up quickly again and then gaining even more off the Bone Daemon
- Some of the pets i have trained i did alternate between EGs and ogre lords if i got bored of the sphynx and to build Valour suites (onto 3rd so far) EGs will also GM at CUs at the least, maybe i should add a comment about alternating monsters?
- Ive always found AOLs the best place to start any high level pet on just to get its skills going, as they are so easy, i have a friend that's just got two Kitsunes and they seem to be doing fine but ill check with him again :)
- i understand what your saying about the skill levels of AOLs vs Sphynx, I've found that it works though?!? :) after your comments ill probably go and tame some Kitsunes to try it myself and ammend if inaccurate :)
- on a side point arnt OLs and AOLs supposed to be the same? but i have defiantly found AOLs easier to kill than OLs
- Even though their wrestle skills are the same AOLs don't cast Magery so they are only going melee damage, which makes them a lot easier to hunt than sphynx, the pet will last a lot longer against them as apposed to Sphynx, thus their beginner level, I've found that working melee skills on them very slow when you get to higher levels and for some reason faster on the Sphynx?
- I need to add some comments about honor as well because i know the fame is a lot different between AOLs Sphynx and Miasma
- No problem removing the Spell Binder guide, i only added it for the continuity of the section :)
- Can you let me know where i am teaching people about blocking monsters from damage? i didn't think i had said this in fact i was hoping to push people into doing more damage to their pets in order to raise their Vet and thus their Animal Lore :) i find it quite concerning you read it in this way because i don't want it to look like i am promoting cheating :)
One extra thing, are you sure pets cannot bond with you if you have a low control chance, I thought as long as someone can transfer the pet to you, you feed it, leave it 7 days and feed it again it will bond?
Elder Gazers are probably a really good choice to train with, as I see they have a wide variance of skill points. I've started to lean away from working with magic-capable targets (as I've hit 120 "real" vet/lore I've nothing to gain by allowing my pets to be damaged). With AOLs I can keep up the heals using nothing but my mana and 100% LRC suit. :)
On the other side of the coin, I know para Ancient Wyrms are a great way to polish off those last few skill points on a Greater Dragon... I need to use a few hundred bandages to kill them, but they give results! :D
Your Spectral Spellbinder guide was the one about blocking your pet from damage. I don't for a second believe you were putting it forward as an exploit or anything like that; again, I consider the rule against it to be complete nonsense, and wouldn't expect any sane person to assume it illegal unless specifically told otherwise...
Yes, the amount of skill required to own a pet is less then the amount required to bond with it...
"Control chance" doesn't technically affect it, because 20% of your chance is based on Animal Lore... and THAT doesn't affect your ability to bond at all.
Note that sometimes the only thing stopping a transfer is that your pet wants some food. Even if it's already Wonderfully Happy. This happens a heck of a lot when attempting to transfer a pet that's just been tamed (and hence never been fed).
Doesn't really matter much as by the time you can control a pet in battle, you've long since passed the bonding mark as well.
- Bomb Bloke 07:51, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
EGs are great, especially with Cus :) im at 120 lore and vet as well, somehow doesnt feel as forfilling now without the odd skill gain every now and then when hunting! :(
You may like Para Ancient Wyrms but for continual training purposes its a little heavy for me ;) hehe much prefer the Bone Daemon ;) hehe
Ahh i understand now, the old keep the pet in a house trick, i suppose it could be seen as an exploit, Ooops, good idea to pull it :)
And you have taught me somthing today, thanks! i didnt know the bonding level was different to ownership level, good point! :)
Glad the information is of some use :)
- ShadowSpinner 09:04, 6 January 2009 (UTC)